On Writing: Revenge! [ John Wick | Gone Girl | V for Vendetta ]

What's the best revenge moment in all of fiction!? Watch my exclusive video on writing intense emotions go.nebula.tv/hellofutureme + LFSC's video on incorporating your character's ghost into the story (looking at Star Wars: Fallen Order!) ~ Tim

For Jon Wick, it was never about killing the dog. It was what the dog represented. His wife was that one ray of sunshine in his dark and bloody life. So when she died, the dog was a way for him to have someone with hi, so he wouldn't be alone again. Killing the dog took away his final connection to his wife, and someone had to pay. Beautifully done.

I think there is something really important in Katara's revenge arc, going through it allowed her to forgive Zuko. The man who killed her mother is not worthy of forgiveness and Katara isn't a person who can kill him but confronting that shows her how much Zuko is trying to change for the better, how he is worthy to be forgiven instead.

John Wick is not an ordinary man he is a retired assassin. I don't think it's a corruption arc, It's the interruption of a untold redemption arc.

Carrie for me is such a fantastic example of a revenge story because it’s almost less a revenge and more of a tragedy. Carrie’s revenge isn’t just a thing happening because she was bullied, but because her entire life both in her home life and school, she’s been abused, isolated, looked down upon, but this date at the prom was the one moment she felt she could be accepted. And on her way there, she’s cautious, she’s sure this is some trick and that any moment the rug is going to be pulled out from under her. But as the night goes on, she becomes more hopeful, she begins to let her guard down, and when she gets elected prom Queen, the book goes into so much detail explaining how happy Carrie is, how she’s finally going to be accepted by others and maybe those days of being isolated and shamed will finally be over. (The movie also shows this phenomenally, Carrie’s actor did amazing in that scene at really selling that emotion) Then suddenly, the pig blood spills on her, and it’s tragic, not only because of it ruining Carrie’s night, but because even though we know it was this jealous girl and her shitty boyfriend that did it, Carrie’s entire understanding of the night unravels as she wonders if EVERYONE was in on it and if this was another trick on her. Right when she thought she had a chance of hope, it’s violently shattered. And Carrie snaps.

Gotta say, your line at 12:23 about "give your character the body count of your average COD player" was BRILLIANTLY HILARIOUS, so off hand dismissive about such a high body count.

Southern Raiders is one of my favourite episodes of TV ever and I really adore the journey Katara takes through it. Drives me up the wall when people say Zuko just wanted her to kill someone to suck up to her and she listened to Aang in the end. Zuko helped her find closure, whatever decision she made. Ultimately she chose her own path and I thought it was extremely meaningful.

Being a nerdy swedish kid, I read quite a few of the icelandic sagas. They are mostly about revenge. Because those icelandic early medieval farmers were a maffia society and the vendetta was their basic societal structure for sanctioning unwanted behavior. Doing your best to get vengeance for wrongs isn't a great dramatic resolution, or a tragic failure, it is as natural as laughing at a funny joke or crying over a dead family member. It's just what you do. These stories are mostly tragedies though. Stories where the initial beef is trivial, feuds go on for generations and the main protagonists are both "the good guys" or what passes for it in late viking society. Their conflicts are understandable, their actions are justified (more or less) but the outcomes are often gigantic shit-showers. For the people who wrote these stories, the revenge arc wasn't fiction, it was a fundamental part of their society and culture, and they knew from personal experience exactly how dysfunctional it was. Anyway, in your personal life, if you ever feel wronged and entitled to some vengeance, move on. Forgiveness isn't the panacea it's cracked up to be, it generally doesn't bring closure or makes you feel better. But it isn't quite as harmful as spending your time and emotional energy thinking on how you were wronged and on sadistic fantasies about what you're going to do to the bastards for it. Now, if chance should serve you up a good opportunity, by all means, throw a good old kick in the balls. That might indeed give you some satisfaction, or so I've heard. But don't tell yourself it's for justice or making the world a better place. And definitely don't spend your time stewing in your lust for it.

Sweeney Todd is one of my favorite revenge stories - the film doesn’t fully give you the same sense as the stage show. Great examination of how class and access turns Sweeney’s personal rage into out and out nihilism. The class angle is what makes it stand out to me.

In Full Metal Alchemist-Brotherhood, the best part about the multiple revenge arcs and stories is that they are all different and is a master class in how not to do the normal revenge arc: Spoilers -Whinry . Never knew she wanted revenge and given the chance and every excuse and as much as she wanted it, she can’t do it. She freezes up and is then being comforted by Ed when he tells her she couldn’t because have was made for a different thing - Scar. He has the strongest arc as he does do revenge killings but it doesn’t help. He wants to die more and more and even twice tells Whinry that she has the right to do him. But she can’t. He is told by his elders and then Whinry that it is evil. He runs into many people and learns that there is more then revenge. But ultimately learns he has to move past it. Make no mistake he still feels the need to revenge but let’s it go. And the irony is that he ultimately kills the person that was arguably the being most responsible for it but to save the world. All at a cost of accepting the unacceptable. - Roy- hunts down his quarry and then is forced to see in no uncertain terms what his revenge will cost him. And even though he wants it, needs it like his next breath, he learns how big the cost is and how many will pay the price and he backs away. But not one person does a false equivalence. Not one person really forgives and not a bit of forgetting happens. Revenge is complicated and tragic and the author makes it clear there is no balancing the scales.

Kaz Brekker from Six of Crows, anyone? I’m not usually for characters whose main goal is revenge, but Kaz was so well written. One reason I kept reading was to figure out why he wanted revenge so badly since you go for so long not knowing. And it just shows how much sacrifice and toiling his done for years to try to get to a place where he can find what he thinks will emotionally heal him (though it can be argued that he doesn’t even want emotionally healing since he’s so wrapped up in the darkness of what he’s been through and what he wants). Anyway, great video, as always!

Might be in the minority here, but I've always liked revenge stories where the character gets their revenge and instead of feeling empty o aimless afterward, they feel fulfilled then go on to live a happy or at least somewhat meaningful life life. Vengeance doesn't always need to be portrayed as a hollow path to self-destruction... as long as the character is smart about it and actually has some kind of goal beyond attaining it.

Aang is probably supportive about Katara not taken revenge on the guy that killed her mother because he would have killed those sand benders if Katara didn't stop him.

Something about the phrasing "Roy Mustang, who wants revenge for the death of his coworker" is sending me. You're absolutely correct but it's also just the funniest way you could have summarized it

I can't tell you how hard I roll my eyes when the "I can't do that or I'm just like the bad guy!" part shows up.

This made me think of the movie, Bullet Train. It's all about revenge (though it's not initially framed that way) and though it's basically an action comedy that keeps you laughing throughout, it has a lot to say about how the pursuit of revenge twists the lives of even those who are only peripherally connected to the inciting event(s).

Can we have On Writing videos on Comedy and Romance? Comedy is hard to writer, so if we could get tips on how to include jokes alongside action or dramatic moments, that'll be great. And Romance arcs are very common but not always done well. Some of my favourite stories are Avatar and Harry Potter, but Romance isn't exactly their greatest strength, to the point where people prefer making their own pairings with the characters. Contrast this with Percy Jackson, in which the canonical romance of the main character is the most popular, something I don't see in most other fandoms.

A great thing to keep in mind with revenge plots (can't remember where I heard it from) is that revenge is rarely ever what a person or character actually wants but what they do want feels impossible to get now so revenge is the second best option to them. If they are seeking revenge for the murder of their family then they might have just wanted more time with their loves ones. If they are seeking revenge for a way they have been hurt personally maybe they just want the other person to understand the pain they caused them. So if these things seem impossible (the family isn't coming back or the target of revenge seems incapable of remorse/consequences).... what would that revenge seeker do if they are proven wrong and the thing they thought they couldn't have they actually can.... or even just being confronted by other characters with making them acknowledge what it is they actually want instead of that revenge.

"i will love for you to support human creators" that is indeed a quote

I know that revenge is often portrayed as a bad thing and with many unforeseen consequences (rightfully so), but there is something very cathartic about good old fashioned revenge. Odysseus getting revenge at the end of his journey by murdering everyone has something cathartic about it