USS Constitution - That Good or Just Lucky? (Special)

I would say that Constitution was lucky in the sense she was blessed with captains who knew how to use her.

Something else to think about in the Shannon vs. The Chesapeake. Broke was an excellent captain and he spent a lot of his own wealth in making sure his ship was expertly equipped. Giving tobacco to gun crews that hit their mark during gun drills as well as fitting out the guns with the latest gunsights for the era so the gun crews could actually aim the weapons at specific points instead of a general area. Phillip Broke was a leader in the ideal of precise gunnery.

This is by and large a fair assessment. The engagements between USN frigates and RN frigates was similar to engagements between heavy cruisers and light cruisers, i.e. the outcome was predictable. On the other hand, the RN had a record of engaging and defeating more heavily armed French and Spanish frigates. The string of defeats by the fledgling Americans was therefore quite a shock.

Outgun anything that can outrun it and outrun anything that can outgun it. So a pocket battleship

One of the main advantages the American Frigates had was that hard oak build that you mentioned at the end of the video. By 1800, England had pretty much cut through their old-growth trees, whereas the Americans had the advantage of access to many old and hardened tress that made thick timber for building navy ships. This strategic advantage led to the British setting an order to not engage the American Frigates in a one-on-one fight and calling the U.S.S. Constitution Old-Ironsides.

No one could have seen that two centuries later, not only are the Victory and Constitution still around , afloat, and cherished by their respective nations as naval treasures, but the crews and preservation experts from both ships work closely with each other to ensure that they will continue to last for a long time to come. I hope someday to see both of them.

Woke up. Saw the title. Grinned in anticipation of the inevitable flame war.

clap, clap, clap. I'm a 3rd generation American shipwright and I cannot state enough how unbiased this video was for the greater part of what is needed to understand the effective qualities of ships of the time. My only critique would be about designating the speeds of particular vessels during combat. The design of a ship may or may not quantify the speed of the vessel, given the sail area, the ease of use of those sails and the training of the crews involved. The British navy at the time did after all have a lot of pressed crew but I digress. The most realistic calculation to the speed of a particular vessel of the time would have inevitably come down to how long they were at sea. Both the British and US navy's used copper bottoms which helped to keep sea growth down, but having actually witnesses boats after having been some time at sea with copper bottoms I can tell you that things do grow on them. They are much, much easier to clean and the growth does take longer but it is something that cannot be avoided. P.S. The USS President had impacted a reef on the eve of her sailing out of harbor while trying to avoid British ships. The keel of the ship was said to have been damaged and some of the corking had been sprung. At the time of the battle she was already taking on water and there were notes that she was not capable of maintaining speed in her condition. Captain Decatur had decided to sail regardless. At the end of the battle captain Decatur was taken not just as a prisoner but as a well known and respected military comander and was treated as such. Not only known for his capture of the Macedonian but in 1805 after infiltrating and fighting in hand to hand combat in the harbor of Tripili to free American and European hostages, he was venerated by many, even admiral Lord Nelson who called it "the bravest act of the age". It was a different time, and chivalry still existed on the high seas. Perhaps on of the reasons we all have so much revernce for that time.

This is a strange debate. It is impossible to build a ship that can defeat every other vessel afloat in every permutation. The Six Original Frigates selected a design strategy to exploit their opponents’ vulnerabilities. They succeeded spectacularly. The fact the USN won ANY action against the RN came as an astounding shock to the British people, and was about as astonishing to British military planners as Taranto was to the Italians or Tsushima was to the Russians. It was a revelation demanding a radical revision in technical development and broad strategy. The other shock to the British (and the world) is that the American crews and captains were good, sometimes excellent. British naval preponderance in this era is hard to fully explain through manufacturing; the French built well and still seemed to always lose on even odds. The fact the Americans handled their ships well and could take the British ships in close action proved a level of professionalism the RN had not expected. The fact that impressment of American citizens into the RN was a core cause for war, the US needed to project some capacity to harm the British at sea in order to help credibly acheive its political aims. In achieving this goal, the Constitution was a triumph.

USS Constitution is the only active ship in the U.S. Navy to have sunk another ship in combat

As a USN sailor, i was on that ship while she was in dry dock for a tour. All i got to say being 6'4 i am to tall to go down to the lower decks.

It's interesting that the US Navy and the British Navy regularly exchange technical information to help their former adversaries maintain their old wooden warships. Navel personnel involved in the preservation of both the USS Constitution and the HMS Victory regularly cooperate back and forth to help the other side.

There were also the spar-decked frigates HMSs Leander and Newcastle. They were hurriedly built to be an exact match for the American 44 gun frigates. They mounted 30x 24-pounder long guns and 26x 42-pounder carronades. Leander and Newcastle almost caught Constitution in 1814; they were overhauling her, when a misunderstood signal led the British squadron to recapture the Constitution's prize (HMS Levant), rather than press an attack on the Constitution herself. The US 44s were long and heavy-hulled ships, fast enough in a straight line, but relatively unhandy when manoeuvring. In theory the smaller British 38s should have had an advantage in an encounter of manoeuvre, however, neither Guerriere, nor Macedonian attempted this, Java did, but was unsuccessful. Of greater note than any superiority of design of the US ships was the outstanding seamanship of the American captains in handling their rather unwieldy frigates.

A lot of research and no jingoism went into this video, making it unique on two counts.

As an American and an amateur naval historian, I really enjoyed this summary. Very fair assessment, though missing a discussion of the training and morale of the two navies' crews. I look forward to more of your videos.

So, basically the USA designed a ship that due to their smaller available numbers, needed to be more powerful and better armed that most of what was in their theater of operation. So yeah, seems like they were "good" and not just lucky. But like any combat situation, both sides need to adapt, which given the amount of available resources, the British were able to do more quickly. Seems like a fair view on the situation. Neither nation was "better" at what they were attempting to do because the situation was very fluid and everyone was adapting. I suppose given the ability, time and need the USA would have built something different in an attempt to adapt to the British adaptations. But, the economy just wouldn't allow it and thus eventually the British navy would have shut down the US navy (and basically did). It's very similar to the central powers in both WW1 and WW2. Economic ability to adapt and adjust won the war for the Entente as Germany and her allies simply didn't have the economic ability to adapt any more. They had a go at it, but just couldn't keep up economically.

0:45 "...as effective as an angrily worded letter." Brilliant!

The whole point of the Constitution and her sisters was simply to say, "Hey, we are not going to be abused without biting back." there was no possible way that the newly born US of that day was going to match any of the European powers in naval tonnage or support infrastructure, or wealth to support that infrastructure. However, the Constitution did is job in showing the European powers that, the US could stand on its own feet and they had to respect that.

Thank you. Your vids are consistently the most professional on ships of all ages on the tube. They are dense with information, yet elegantly presented. I never miss opening your postings first.

Nice to see myself in your presentation! Your second photo, of the longboat engagement, featured the longboat 'Rollette', owned and operated by the Provincial Marine Amherstburg reenactment unit, in the foreground, Midshipman J. Whyte commanding. This image is from the engagement at Nancy Island (Wasaga Beach, Ontario) and is probably about ten years old.