Why did Sauron turn evil? | LOTR Lore

People if Halbrand is revealed as Sauron : "I can fix him" ~ Tim

"Elves as people who peaked in high school and never got over a good season as quarterback" isn't a reading I'd considered before but I can definitely see the connection

I'm so early, Sauron is not evil yet.

I really like the theory suggested that during the Second Age, Sauron attempted to reform himself after fleeing from Morgoth’s demise and was interested in creation of rings with Celebrimbor from a desire to do good. When Gil-Galad and Galadriel distrusted him, seeing the darkness in his heart despite his outward reformation. Over time, the old temptations to create harmony though order stir inside him while working with Celebrimbor, seeing the Great Rings as a means of achieving that. The creation of the One Ring was the final straw, where he went full tilt into tyranny with the Ring as an external and internal corrupter, and all the while he was still convinced it was for a greater purpose of order.

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power." -Someone

I feel like I need to defend the Valar a bit 😅: They were so reluctant to directly intervene in the First Age because they knew their involvement and the removal of Morgoth (who after all was pouring his essence into the Earth itself) would be extremely destructive, and the War of Wrath was the absolute last resort after Valar like Ulmo had given several chances and indirect aid to the Eldar & Men to succeed on their own. They also are not omniscient, and their dedication to serving Eru means they want to restraint decisions as little as possible; they are teachers&guides, but don't want to control or lead the children of Eru. They are overall too hesitant, but understandably so (they also really struggle to understand the psychology of the children, especially men, e.g. them not understanding the temptation that Numenor's placement in combination with the ban is)

This is why every charavter who is ever tempted by the ring imagines themselves to build a better world with it. Because Sauron put his very essence into his ring. He wanted world dominion to rebuild it to a new glory.

I'd totally buy an audiobook version of the books but narrated by Tim instead. When I read them I do so with his voice in my mind, because I'm so used of hearing his explanations that it just comes naturally lol

One of the things I love about Tolkien's writing. Pretty much every evil character had some good intentions or did some good things. Melkor (Morgoth's name before he stole the Silmarils) helped shape Arda int he beginning. While he did also help destroy it a few times but that's beside the point. I also love what Melkor means: He who arises in might

When he started talking about how Sauron did humanitarian work towards the beginning of the Second Age, I started imagining a "What if he knew his moral limits and kept to an advisory role, the way Gandalf did?" scenario. The Rings probably wouldn't have been forged, or at least not with the canon intentions, and the Men who worshiped him would've probably been good in their own way. Maybe even better than the Numenorians, since they'd have had a Maiar advising them. It's even possible he'd have had them worship Illuvitar directly and largely ignored the Valar, but now I'm getting really deep into the theoretical.

These are the types of antagonists I like. Those who you don't really agree or support or sympathize with. But you understand WHY they chose their paths. For me, this is what makes them feel the most... "Human" if you will.

We do see Gil-Galad becoming obsessed with preserving the beauty of the elves, so that's something I guess.

“He went the way of all tyrants” I love that from Tolkien. Second only to Tolkien, I love studying Napoleon, this is exactly how he rose and fell to power as well. “Sic semper tyrannis”

I miss these types of videos . Nothing is better than discussion/insight on deeper Tolkien philosophical themes. Thank you much for the effort and excellent video.

Sauron as a figure torn between good and evil in the second age is one of my favorite pieces of Tolkien's mythology, especially through his relationship with Celebrimbor and how that shapes who he eventually becomes. I'm still hopeful that ROP will show at least some of that!

It's a good commentary on modern life to talk about the detriments of placing too much importance on the things you have can in this world instead of the connection you could have to this world

The phrase," the road the hell is paved with good intentions" exists for a reason, a desire to do good doesn't mean that end results will be moral or good outcomes

One of the things that I didn't like about the first episode of the new series is that the Elf king gave travel to Valinor as a reward. I always felt that the trek to Valinor was something Elves did after they had exhausted the joy and wonder they could find in Middle Earth. It was very much a personal decision, not something that they had to earn.

I had a class in art history about romanticism this week. It’s like you’re parroting it. The criticism on industrialism, the fading (natural) world, the interest in the spiritual more than the physical,… Not only in these things, but in so many other ways too, Tolkien is the ultimate romantic. It’s more than just the escapism alone. My professor was SO right when she said romanticism never truly had an end date. Tolkien himself was already born decades after the supposed end of the period, but we’re still doing it, and he had no small part in that.

It's interesting to see the theme of spiritual and physical needs. And it's interesting to note this theme was played with before Tolkien was born: in The Divine Comedy, Dante meets two kings in Purgatory who are there because of neglect in their rule. One was there because, though he was a good ruler, he failed to keep in mind the spiritual needs of his kingdom. The other was a surprise to Dante, because the second king was a truly pious man, but his guide, Virgil, explains that the second king is in purgatory because he failed to account for the kingdom he was responsible for. It feels like we could have had a very different story: Sauron could, plausibly, be the good guy if the elves re-focused too heavily on the spiritual needs. If, instead of worrying for their own mortality at the expense of their souls, they started worrying for their own damnation at the cost of the living.