Who Are the Good Guys? An Analysis of the Skyrim Civil War

So many refer to Ulfric as “racist.” Tell me: what has Ulfric actually said or done to provide solid proof of this? None of his dialogue so much as suggests this beyond bitterness toward the Altmer, more specifically the Thalmor, this being completely understandable. He continues to allow the Dunner refugees to live within the city even though he has every opportunity to kick them out if he hated them so much; instead they live there rent free and are split between those who actually try to assimilate/contribute and those who refuse. Ulfric only ever speaks of national sovereignty, which many unfortunately tend to associate with racial supremacy. It’s just not true.

It really is a testament to the quality of Skyrim that even after 10 years we’re still making videos about it.

Anyone else think its chilling a guild of time travelling wizards appeared after thousands of years of silence to stop the thalmor from obtaining a piece of a god?

2 Random Aldmeri Dominion soldiers chatting: "Are we the baddies?"

The most ideal scenario would be having a dragonborn human unite the realms by presenting himself as the second coming of tiber septim and then proceed to unleash the Numidium on top of the summerset isles like Todd Howard unleashing an unwanted skyrim update on my mod setup.

Although I doubt Bethesda did it intentionally, for me the civil war is one of the best written quests in the Elder Scrolls period, simply on the bases that there is no right or wrong side here. Both Empire and Stormcloaks have valid points, but also glaring flaws that make them unsuited to rule. The only right answer would be to remain neutral and protect Skyrims people as a whole, but the game pretty much forces you to intervene eventually, after defeating Alduin. Wich forces you to pick whatever you see as the lesser of two evils. It gives me major Game of Thrones vibes (the early seasons) and I love it.

The Argonians are kept outside because of the tension with the dark elves. Many of the dark elves are refugees because of the Argonian invasion.

My ancestors are smiling on me imperial, can you say the same!?!?

It's important to note as well, that Windhelm has a number of Altmer living in it that are in good standing with the community, and don't get flack from people like Rolf Stone-fist. If Ulfric or the Stormcloaks would have a problem with any of the elves, it would be the Altmer and not the Dunmer due to the Aldmeri Dominion.. And on the topic of Rolf Stone-fist, while he's crude, his suspicions that those loyal to the Empire are hiding in the Grey Quarter is actually true. Upstairs in the New Gnisis Cornerclub, the owner has a suit of Imperial Armor on his shelf. People often overlook the fact that of all of the cities in Skyrim, Windhelm is the only city with a sizable population of Dunmer, as well as the only city that actively took in refugees from Morrowind. Of course that's going to raise tensions in the city, but Ulfric saw it as important enough to give an entire quarter of his city to the refugees. After this happened, the Argonians showed up, and it takes very little knowledge of the lore to know that the tensions between the Argonians and Dunmer are HIGH due to the Dunmer engaging in slavery of the beast races for so long. The Argonians invaded Morrowind as retribution for the slavery. Ulfric keeping the Argonians out of the city is done entirely to avoid a small civil war from breaking out in his city. Moving onto the Empire, people claim that they're the good guys for trying to beat back the racist Stormcloaks, but lets look at Solitude, the headquarters of the Empire in Skyrim. For one, they outright BAN Khajiit from their city, much like every other city does in Skyrim, so they aren't better in that regard. And General Tullius, the man who is often regarded as an Honorable and Respectful man REGULARLY makes derogatory remarks about the Nords of Skyrim, disrespecting their traditions and acting as if Imperials are superior. And finally, since somehow people continue to get this messed up to this day, the Thalmor Dossier on Ulfric refers to him as an Asset. This does not mean 'Agent' or 'Ally' or even imply that he's working with the Thalmor, simply that they have their uses for him, which includes allowing his war to rage on for as long as possible to keep the empire busy. This is the most misunderstood piece of info in the game, and as much as I think it's a genius plot point, I wish they hadn't included it because all it did was give a bunch of midwits on Reddit something to scream about for 13 years.

As a writer I never liked the idea of separating wars into good vs bad sometimes it’s all just shades of gray

The Hero of Kvatch and Champion of Cyrodiil would have been disappointed to see the Empire of today

I always go empire for the exact reasons you do, with the added belief that a United and powerful empire is the best way to set up an ultimate future victory over the Thalmor

Love the thought at the end, about every character being their own person and having separate world views and beliefs - that’s how you really get the most out of an RPG, and that’s the right way to play a game like Skyrim. Great video!

What's not really discussed in this debate is that the imperial troops are pretty much all local recruits from Skyrim. It's Nords vs. Nords.

I find it a little bit shallow that you as the Dragonborn can't just delete the Thalmor from Skyrim. Like kill most of their agents and capture most of their strongholds in Skyrim. I bet this would bring Ulfric and Tulius to the table and maybe even truce between the two could be achived. Imagine: the Empire gains one hell of a commander and a respctable fighting force to kick in some altmeri teeth.

As a proud telvanni sorcerer and mycologist, i can as a matter of fact confirm that the barbaric stormcloaks, the arrogant aldmeri and the mongrel dogs of the empire are all villans.

Something I didn't hear mentioned is what Tullius says if you end the quest siding with the Stormcloaks. The specific phrasing escapes me at the moment but the jist is he heavily implies this is exactly what the Dominion wanted, and that this war was always about breaking up the empire to make it easier to conquer. On its own this can be seen as a case of guilting you into regretting your decision. But that only makes sense in a meta sense, if Tullius is aware he is part of a story. The more likely case is that he knew all along that the war against the Dominion wasn't over. How couldn't he? He's a senior Imperial General singularly tasked with bringing one of the Empire's strongest provinces back under control. The Blades may be gone but the Penitus Oculatus has taken their place as the Empire's intelligence branch. The Thalmor, their beliefs and their objectives have to have been at least hinted at over the course of the war and ensuing cold war that followed. They outright boast of Elven supremacy, and will likely have done as much during the war and during interrogations at the time. They refer to the Great War as the First War against the Empire (also likely well known to Tullius and the Penitus Oculatus.) Then there's the Synod. They were actively trying to get hold of artifacts of power independently of the Thalmor. Bringing the strongest artifacts in Tamriel together in the Imperial City; the heart of the Empire and the last place to fall in any upcoming war. All this tells me that the Empire is trying to consolidate their power quietly for the second war against the Dominion, and the signing of the White-Gold Concordat was just a placating gesture to buy them time. Combine that with the assassination of the Emperor (who was widely known to be relatively weak and disliked, especially after the war) by a member of the Elder Council and the fact he was neither surprised nor particularly saddened by it, and it paints another interesting image: His death is part of the plan. Dying of old age and handing the throne down to a successor he's chosen will only extend that legacy of weakness and unpopularity. But being assassinated by an unknown party would instead galvanize the Empire's citizens. It would make them angry, defensive, eager to strike back, because that's how faction mentality works. It's "us" and "them". By attacking the leader of the Empire and killing him, it's the highest form of hostility that can be committed against the group as a whole. Rather than weaken the empire, it would have everyone in an uproar, calling for the blood of the one who attacked them. It would strengthen the next Emperor's grip on the Throne. Collectively, these points paint a compelling picture for the Empire's next move. They're preparing for war, and it's likely going to blow up in the Thalmor's pointy snobby faces.

I actually once role played a thalmor who goes through the main quest and setting up some "accounts" in solitude for the thalmor but after he found the dossier and then met and spoke to Esbern he then realized that everything he believed was flawed and so turned against the thalmor he realized thoe that tamriel would need to buy time to stand against summerset he was a key agent and knew much about their organization and so he joins the imperial legion tended to his capabilities as dragonborn turning that power against them once more preparing to make his own stand and remove those flaws he now sees

TL;DR Stormchads stay winning

I used to think the Empire were the good guys, but lots of terrible things happened after the war. The Thalmor knew the Nords would revolt about a ban on Talos worship, and it anyway, making it an, "empire problem." -Conveniently-timed disappearances of Nords who owned critically important farms/mines, courtesy of Thalmor Justiciars who NEVER stopped killing, abducting, and imprisoning Nords. -Maven Blackbriar exploited this, now even Riften's guards are criminals, and she's a slumlord. -Thalmor used abducted Nords to ransom wealthy families into ratting out Talos worshippers. -Said locations were then purchased by Thalmor-controlled foreigners, like that d!lldo Nazeem. -Now the Thalmor control most of Skyrim's money, evidenced by those at Elenwen's party. -The Empire enforce Thalmor laws on Skyrim's people, arresting and killing those who resist, in the name of, "peace." Only to preserve a dying Empire, that likely won't survive another war. - Elenwen was there when they were about to execute Ulfric, his troops, and The Dragonborn hero without a trial, which is a MAJOR war crime, (yes i know, a fair trial would've meant complete anarchy, and all of Skyrim would've went up in arms, it still wasn't right.) -In the dossier Elenwen herself requested Ulfric's torturer to place his cell outside her office... *The Thalmor also admit to arming the Stormcloacks with weapons and armor, hence, "indirect aid." The Thalmor want the war to go on as long as possible, maximizing casualties on both sides. Can't root for that, even if the Stormcloaks also committed war crimes, its not as bad as the above listed. I also used to think Ulfric was a huge bigot, but in other games, the Dark/High Elves were next-level bigots. So in a world where everyone is a bigot, NO ONE IS.