Kematu or Saadia | Skyrim Lore

I side with Kematu. One interesting bit I discovered once is if you bring Saadia out to Kematu and kill her in front of him, Kematu will say "All that effort and you just kill her? You've ruined everything!" If Kematu really was going to kill Saadia even after the player leaves, why would be so angry with the player?

I always betray Saadia because I'm a TES-Lorebeard and I have a fundamental primal fear of women.

So I heard a theory that Saadia is the guilty one. This is because she claims she got in trouble for speaking out against the Thalmor. However she’s from hammerfell who gained their independence from the Thalmor. So even though I dispise the alliker, I think saadias more likely to be guilty.

I always assumed that the reason her urn shows up is more a memorial that she went missing without a trace sort of thing

I usually kill Kematu because that cave alone has over a dozen bodies for my werewolf character to eat

11:05 In Kematu’s defense, whether he’s lying, telling half truths or telling the whole truth, either way his operation is illegal, and Hammerfell isn’t on great terms with the Empire either, so he risks losing his men in a skirmish if they came across an Imperial patrol as well as a Stormcloak war band. Hiding out with outlaws and sending out small parties to scout for intel was the best he had to work with. He’s clearly very experienced/seasoned as a warrior

I always go with Kenchadu, Saadia just annoys me with her existence, and I savor the moment when she knows she's been betrayed.

I have a 4th hypothesis on Saadia's coffin. What if after the paralysis spell wore off, she tried to fight back and escape and was accidentally killed in the struggle? If Kematu had malicious intent, why would he bring her body back to Whiterun to be buried instead of just...throwing her in a ditch somewhere? If she was killed in accidental self defense he could go up to a guard like "Hey, this woman attacked me and I killed her defending myself, could you bury her here? It is where she lived", he'd have no reason to hide the body afterall

I think I saw that the urn thing might just be a game mechanic thing. The games default for when a character leaves the game is to put them in their holds cemetery

I'm firmly in the "Both of these people are lying" camp when it comes to this quest, but I really wish the ambiguity had been taken even further by being able to call them out on the inconsistencies in their stories. While I understand that it's an advantage for new players, it's so disappointing (and immersion-breaking) that the DB acts like they're fresh off the boat from Akavir and knows literally nothing about Tamriel, no matter their background. There's absolutely no way my Redguard DB who literally had to flee Hammerfell for being an elven supremacist Thalmor sympathizer (she's weird like that) would take Saadia's story at face value even though it's the complete opposite of what she herself experienced. It'd be fun if Saadia and Kematu adjusted their claims slightly depending on the Dragonborn's race or quest decision, maybe playing up the Thalmor angle for a Stormcloak DB or dropping it entirely for an Altmer DB. That way, it would be even harder to pick a side and you could really roleplay your decision depending on who that particular character would be more likely to sympathize with.

I absolutely love this quest and I’m glad to see it still getting debated over a decade later. When I first found it I agonized over who to trust, and I still wrestle with it on pretty much every playthrough. But I disagree that Kematu is necessarily better, or that there even is a “right” choice here - cue wall of text. First off, I agree that Saadia’s story is absolutely swiss cheese. It makes no sense for Hammerfell to persecute Thalmor protestors, or for Saadia to hide in Thalmor-patrolled Skyrim, or for Saadia to even be as old as her claims would make her. Granted on all points, she’s totally lying. But Kematu’s story is also sketchy. Why not pursue Saadia through official channels? Skyrim and Hammerfell are longstanding allies, and Jarl Ballin is neutral in the rebellion - the Thalmor can’t really boss him around. We’d expect Hammerfell to just request extradition for a traitor hiding in Whiterun - at least as a formality, before sending their elite honor guard to carry out an illegal kidnapping in a foreign country! On top of this, there’s no evidence whatsoever to back up Kematu’s identity or claims. He doesn’t offer any arrest warrants or proof of ID. His crew is hiding in a bandit den and wandering around accosting random Redguard women. For a state-sanctioned assassin squad, don’t they seem a bit underfunded? And even if you kill Kematu and his pals, there’s nothing to back up his story on any of their bodies or in their lair. No official orders, no journals, nothing. For me this is the nail in the coffin. In a game so reliant on textual exposition for its quests, the lack of any clear evidence at the end suggests to me that Bethesda intentionally kept this one ambiguous. Kind of like the Civil War, there are compelling reasons why both sides suck. So, to recap: Saadia’s story holds no water, and Kematu’s mostly makes sense but is missing literally any proof at all. Fine, except Kematu is the instigator here. Saadia was just chilling in the Bannered Mare until his crew showed up ready to stuff her in a bag, so the burden of proof is kind of on him. My personal suspicion? Both sides are full of it and just tell you what you want to hear - they spin a yarn that paints the other guy as a Thalmor lover and hope you bite. Maybe it’s a house rivalry back in Hammerfell, or a gang that had a falling-out, or hell, a soured romance between Saadia and Kematu. I don’t know. What I do know is that my characters usually feel a responsibility to Skyrim and her citizens first and foremost. So in the absence of substantial evidence either way, I usually side with Saadia, who - regardless of her past - has been nothing but an upstanding citizen since I got here and seems only to want to be left alone. By contrast, Kematu’s squad, even if they’re right about her, is walking around harassing innocent women and funding bandit factions in MY country. I generally find it more palatable to tack a few bodies onto the end of clearing a bandit hideout than to coldly lure a person who’s chosen to trust me to their paralysis and abduction on zero real evidence. Plus, in Kematu’s own words, she’s a pretty face :)

Another possible explaination in-game for Saadia's death resulting in her burial in Whiterun: the Alik'ir were serious about bringing her to trial in Hammerfel, but not long after their departure, Saadia managed to escape. But the Alik'ir succesfully tracked her down again and, deciding she was too much of a flight risk, took it upon themselves to kill her so she would pay for her crimes. Even if was not ideal from their perspective, they still carried out their task. And because hauling a dead woman all the way back home was going to bring trouble, they had her burned and interred in Whiterun after obtaining proof of her capture.

I side with Saadia, always. She can be useful to me after the quest is completed. It's always nice to have eyes and ears inside the biggest tavern in the city, especially in a hold as large and centrally located as Whiterun. As a servant, she's also pretty much invisible to the patrons so they won't be as guarded when they see her moving around. Also, having saved her, if she's going to be loyal to ANYONE (not guaranteed, granted), it'll be to the person who bailed her out of a bind and allowed her to live without looking over her shoulder. She'd be less likely to betray you too, just in case the Alik'r send another group after her (she'd need an ally as powerful and influential as the Dragonborn). Kematu is useless, even when he's in Skyrim (and I play Redguards).

Personally, I think both are lying - perhaps she ran from a bad marriage. Both have inconsistencies in their stories, plus I do not believe noble warriors would pay bandits to hang out in their cave when they could easily wipe them out (and when some of them are staying in the tavern in Rorikstead, so, like, they could just all do that, or split between there and Riverwood?)

I love you manage to cover old mysteries with a sense of humor and amazing narroration that I'm as interested as I was when skyrim first came out decades ago 😂

I don't know where you came from, but I'm glad you appeared on my recommendations. Good video lengths, amazing presentation skills, nicely researched as well. You'll likely be the next channel I leave on in the living room as background sound while I do whatever is needed for the day!

What I don’t get is why kematu and his goons were hiding out with a killer bandit group, but honestly I like siding with Saadia because she’s the only npc in the game that actually takes your order when you sit down

I side with the person paying me.

Ohh, found another cool Elder Scrolls storyteller! Subbed, always enjoy these quest and lore dives! :goodvibes::yougotthis:

I don't think either said is telling the whole truth. Because Hammerfell signed a seperate treaty with the dominion so saying the resistance is alive and well is false. But during the war she still could have betrayed them. I don't believe her myself but I also don't believe the assassins. But the way politics is in all those places it could be something way more complicated as they are next to High Rock and had their own border problems with Skyrim in the past as well. So all those noble families might just doing a little political intrigue using the dominon war as an excuse.