ZONE 2 RUNNING HR Seem Wrong? Try The KARVONEN METHOD

Hi Taren, saw your Instagram... don't dwell on the negativity. 100k subs seems to be that magic number where the hate comments get loud. Everyone wants to be that Monday morning quarterback and to throw stones at someone who after working their ass off for years providing free and useful content finds some success and asks for the sale - either through sponsorship or their own products. People are feeling more out of control right now than ever and often look to discharge that anxiety onto people who "deserve" it because they aren't struggling in the same way. Keep doing what you're doing. You'll lose some assholes, but you'll gain more true fans in the long run.

This calculation is something I’ve struggled with. I have a tested Max HR right around 200bpm (despite being 43 years old), and a resting HR around 56bpm. I’ve found two schools of thought on determining zone 2 rates: 1) base zone 2 off of 60-70% of your max heart rate. In that case I get a zone of 120-140 bpm. 2) base zone 2 off of 60-70% calculated from your HR Reserve (which appears to be the Karvonen Method discussed here - though this is the first time I’ve heard a name associated with it). Using my HR numbers I’m now looking at a Zone 2 rate of 142-157 bpm. So, these two methods produce substantially different results for calculating my individual zone 2 HR, despite the fact that I have repeatedly demonstrated a known Max and resting HR number for me. So, as someone who is trying to employ a good Zone 2 base training, I’m still at a loss of which method to use. I typically aim for a HR of 135-140 for my zone 2 work, but I wonder if I’m going too light based on the other method of calculating the zones? For me, at least, a 137 HR usually puts me around a 10:30 min mile pace on level terrain, and a pace at which I can carry on a conversation (one of those old school indicators of zone 2 work). But, if there’s more juice to squeeze from this zone in terms of HR, it sure would be nice to figure that out!

Thanks Taren this info was a really helpful "reality check" for me. I'm 72 so my MAF HR is 108 which is like a moderately fast walking pace !! . I did the MAx test and it was 156. My Oura Ring overnight RHR is 48. The Karnoven method calculated the zone 2 pace at 113-124 which means I can/should jog in zone 2 training. Makes a lot more sense, thanks

This is really helpful. I'm 48, so MAF would be 132. But my max HR is 198 and resting is around 40, which gives me 151 for the top of zone 2. This is the difference between painfully slow and an effort that is enjoyable, yet still very easy. For reference, my average heart rate was 165 for my last marathon. So anything below about 155 feels like I could sustain it all day. Thanks for the video!

I switched to the Karnoven method about 4 weeks ago and couldn't be happier. Using the Maff method I had a top of zone 2 at 139bpm (180-41) and felt like I was just toddling around. I did a max HR test with my cardiologist and got a MaxHR of 200 (I've seen 207 while on the bike) and recalculated my zones. Now I go for zone 2 rides in the 150's instead of sub zone 1in the 130's. Everyone needs to go out and do a MaxHR test ASAP.

So glad you uploaded this today, I was literally googling all last night making sure I actually am in zone 2. My cycling watts is going up steadily, but my running isn't improving at all... yet!

I love the idea behind this method. Based on many metrics, I have a 132 Z2 top, which is extremely easy/slow. I think this accounts for a lot more than others. Excited to see the results.

You're awesome dude, thanks for always helping us out! Literally answer our questions without us having to ask them

I use the MAF method. As max heart rate can vary depending on how tired or motivated you are I simply stick to a lower number if the run feels hard (fatigued) and I might go slightly higher if the run feels easy (fresh). You can also simply do the nose breathing method if you're not congested.

It’s ‘Karvonen’ Allright. This method already exists from the early ‘80’s. It served me forr years with great satisfaction and just like an ‘old’ bloodpressure measurement manchet is still accurate to measure blood pressure, so is the Karvonen method still the best, ‘self service’ method to come close to a lab-test.

Thanks Taren! Love that you brought it over from the podcast and showed it in the calculator. I was in the exercise phys lab years ago and a prof gave me really poor advice about zones at that time due to my abnormally high max and low resting HR. Obviously the research and knowledge has come a long way since then but it’s still pretty obscure. Grateful to have someone share some insight for those of us with a wider range.

This yields a totally different result than the spredsheat I downloaded from your site. Edit: I now realize that in the spreadsheat from triathlontaren the high value of zone 2 stays at 138 no matter what variables you type in. It never changes. There must be something wrong.

Taren, I new to your channel. 2 days ago I did 60 minutes on treadmill zone 2. I cannot believe how sore my legs are.

For me determining heart rate zones using blood lactate threshold is the most accurate.

Fantastic !!! Now i can finally see that my previous Zone2 was too low, (i am doing Ultra btw) far better now !!! I have already updated my zones in my Polar watches and Flow ...Thanks !!

THANK YOU! I've really been struggling to keep into Z2, even when letting garmin auto-adjust max HR. I haven't even done a proper max HR test in a decade (was as 204), but with my 48 resting HR and a max 196, from a really long steep MTB climb with a HR-strap, using the Karvonen formula my Z2 suddenly looks like what feels naturally easy to me. I'm gonna try this for a while and see how it goes.

Can you explain your thought process on why you picked the lowest monthly RHR and not like the most commonly seen monthly RHR?

Thanks! I knew and felt that pulse of 130 is too low for me as Zone2 since no effort at all, and around 150 is the end of my Zone2. The formula proved it and thanks a lot - now the math suite the feelings :) :) :)

Before anyone copies and barfs, I have an alternate solution. Get access to 18 flights of stairs, run down them and then run up them, once. That's your max heartrate. I'm 37 and my max is 200. That's how I found out for sure, first try. Really settled my mind, made me less mad at zone 2 training that I had been doing 15 or so bpm to low.

I have used zones from the "Kavonen Method" for a few years now....since 2016-ish. Now.... it gives me a generous zone 2 but I always stay on the "low end" of my zone. My max HR is 180-ish...