$50,000 Tourney EXPOSED a MASSIVE Issue with The Finals

Nah it showed that a premade 3 stack that was top 3 all season with 9k combined hours shouldn’t play against teams with content creators who never played the game before for a 50k cash prize. Rigged

Embark is full of ex-Dice developers, yet the idea of a Rush-like mode hasn't crossed their mind even when coming up with TA. In Rush, there are attackers and defenders, which means no third-partying. In Rush, once the attackers win an objective, the match moves to the next stage of the map, hence no pace slowing through a loadout screen (the pace being an issue in TA). In Rush, defenders have unlimited spawn tickets, which means that attackers must always play an objective instead of making the mode a TDM.

3rd partying is a big problem BUT terminal attack is just way worse. I rather get 3rd partied than die because of boredom.

I usually agree with ottr but not this time. First of all, as other pointed out, twitch rivals was not really balanced in terms of skill levels. If anything, if team Gigz didn't win with a decent margin, there could have been an argument that luck plays a much bigger role than skill. What happened instead was that the team with the deepest understanding of high level play and strategy was ultimately rewarded, as it should be. Secondly, gigz team kinda found themselves sort of "smurfing" into a tournament in which teams where shabbily put together. It's not a good case to analyze and whichever data you extract from it is not really reliable. Question is: what happens if a team doesn't follow what others expect them to do? What happens if a team waits for a thirdparty that will never occur? All of a sudden, the best strategy means nothing and the time constraint will always force the hand of those that think they can just wait. This to me only indicates how immature the cashout mode still is in terms of tactics. What we're mostly seeing is the lack of players with a strategic mindset but with good aim.

Been playing world tour a lot this season on Asian servers. The third party strategy is so used, that some teams will even run double light and medium so that they can just go around quicker to pick on fights. I accept that third partying is a part of Cashout at it's current state, but I would like to see another respawn based game mode that would be as equally fun to play both casually and competitively.

Damn Gigz left him so traumatized he can’t utter his name

Apex ratting is INFINITELY worse. It’s not even close. ALGS and ALGS challengers is literally unwatchable until the last circle.

i think the ratting could be resolved by : 1- big deposit bonus & 2- not giving all the money at the end of the time, but give half of it over time and the rest at the end. Last minute steals should still be viable but not the go to

The third partying forces you to strategize more. I think The Finals high-level competitive turning into 4D chess is a good thing.

Twitch rivals showed need for solo queue only mode with how much odds are stacked in favor of teams that constantly play together. Most people don't get that benefit which may explain why cash out hasn't led to player retention, and it was best displayed how much RNG there is for even great players playing with random teammates.

No other captain with a 3 Stack from Season 2 was invited. Only the team that placed first was 🤔

I think twitch rivals exposed the problem with having absurdly lopsided teams, but the concept of multi team is honestly a significant part of the appeal to me in the game (in terms of a comp shooter at least). It may not be the fairest design inherently, but that’s what balancing is for. Even with it being unbalanced I’ve reached diamond since closed beta 2 without fail and loved the experience, while acknowledging it does have balance concerns as a mode. As for balancing it, I think cash from each cashout could provide a constant flow of money while you control it, but with half of it being attached to whoever had it at the end. This would incentivize both keeping control but also to be the one to finish it off, removing some of the incentive for 3rd partying while keeping the excitement of that last minute capture. The other option instead of constant cash being added is some tick based system, like every 10 seconds or 30 seconds it provides a chunk of money. This being said I do think it’s best if there is a bonus to the end of the box. During closed beta 1 vaults would drain cash in the last minute of the match to reduce the bad experience of being reverse swept, but it ironically made the game much less interesting. That last minute was often a waste of time, as both teams knew the game was over, but there was nothing to do but wait for the clock to run out. Keeping that potential comeback alive benefits the game’s pacing as a whole, but I think allowing some amount of that money to come during the capture process would reduce the frustration around getting stolen at the last second. It hurts a lot less if you both ended with 5k instead of the last minute steak getting 10k. While there is a solid argument that they should only have two teams for the most fair experience, fair doesn’t necessarily mean fun and vice versa. Multi team allows for comebacks, and for example allowed that amazing reverse sweep during the rivals event where gigz team lost basically everything in the last 10 seconds due to mistakes they made as a team, allowing the last place team to make a comeback to first. In terms of balance maybe not awesome, but from a spectator perspective and as an esport it’s incredible. That’s what I think embark is having a hard time with here. I’d be curious to see a fairer tournament happen (as in teams that are actually at the same level), but I think many of the complaints are valid.

In asian server, we not only get 3rd partied but, sometimes also get 4th partied. Shameless 4th team comes out of nowhere and gets all the money. And here I am with my bros back to back defeated 2 teams already and we are exhausted

If there’s a stacked tournament lobby third partying would not be relevant because most teams would value fighting a 3v3 instead of waiting for someone else to make the first move and then have no time to win a cashout.

it's wild that everyone's experience is that different... I haven't noticed in my 300 hours of playing in diamond that third partying was that big an issue. Fighting the un-contested cashout was always the smarter move in my experience. i also came from apex, and i would say the 3rd partying is so much worse there, since most the times you know where enemies are, you can hear them fighting. I have so many other points i would mention before third partying, when talking about negatives with the current state of The Finals.

love that 50% of chat in that whole event was "remove TA"

Nah, I dont buy it. If we go this way I could make the argument that there's a VERY simple way to make sure not to get 3rd party in the game: be the 4th party. I mean get creative people. Bring the second box to A that has already started instead of going B. If one team is so strong make them fight everyone. Maybe starting a second cashout on B when A is almost finished isnt the best idea. Leaving the cashout you've started to the profit of the number one team to go start another one could also be a valid strategy as you're making sure you're the second team with the most money by opening boxes and starting cashouts. I could go on and on... but hey I guess rats will use rats strats to win, and tunnel vision players will tunnel vision. (edit) Also, I would add World Tour already fixed one major issue of ranked cashout: it gave the money extracted a meaning as it is now the metric used for the leaderboard. In old ranked cashout the team with the most money had no incentive to keep fighting for more money past a certain point of the game. Now they do. Although the fact the game mode isnt ranked anymore probably has a little bit to do with that too, people get more creative, they allow themselves to be more playfull and try more crazy things.

Maybe to counter the third party issue would be to gain some HP when killing a whole team? Maybe 60 HP for the whole team after the game recognizes that “team #1” kill the 3 members of “team #2”

I've been telling this since my first play test of this game. Make the cashouts give small money in intervals (like 1k every 3 seconds) to whoever is currently controlling it. If it gets stolen, the previous team would still have their time's worth. Make every second of the cashout important, this way ratting will be punished because if you wait for the final moments to steal the cashout you will get less money. Maybe do half the vault's money like I said and the other half just give to the team who finished the cashout. I'm a game developer/designer by trade and I saw this design flaw after my first few matches. A competitive arena shooter like this should never encourage its players to avoid encounters and hide.

Third party wouldn't be so much of an issue if this game had proper sound. You can't even hear a heavys charge for fks sake 💀 The game feels incomplete for competitive players.