An Atheist in the Realm of Myth | Stephen Fry | EP 169

Shownotes: [0:18] Jordan Peterson introduces the episode's guest Stephen Fry whose list of titles and accomplishments is quite astonishing. [1:33] Stephen starts the show with concerns over the culture wars that seem to be dividing the western world and alienating people from one another [4:30] Jordan talks about his public reputation for pointing out the excesses of the radical political left in western culture leading back into the discussion of the importance of maintaining free speech. Stephen believes that the moderate left is almost and repulsive to the extreme left and their obvious opponents the far right are at this point. It's become very unfashionable to be a moderate of any type. [11:00] Jordan directs discussion toward the role Stephen Fry had to play in the atheist movement. Stephen outlines his alignment with Empiricism more than Rationalism when looking at the world and it's problems. [16:00] Examining the strange way that Empiricism doesn't always need a rational answer to function effectively. [21:00] The truths found in literature, fiction, drama, movies, and general narrative that we find so compelling even though we don't necessarily understand why? Stephen uses some examples from egyptian and greek mythology to show how narrative has been passing truth from one generation far before writing and science (science is still just catching up). [30:00] Jordan brings Stephen back to the question of why he feels his perspective differs from his atheist friend Richard Dawkins. Highlighting the incredible human capacity for wonder. [34:00] Jordan and Stephen examining the learning process of humankind using sacrifice to obtain some future good [44:00] Is the corruption of the christian church intrinsic in the philosophy or the people who follow the religion? When looking at all traditions, where do you draw the line on the good intention of what the tradition represents and the people who corrupted that vision? [53:00] Jordan brings up the novel the Brothers Karamazov that Stephen quotes concerning the injustice inherent with the possibility of a God who created a world with so much suffering and injustice in it. Jordan postures that resentment of such a being does not seem to have any functional utility? [1:01:00] The argument of a higher mode of being. looking at the development of morality in children through playing games, examining other behavioral science in humans, rats, mice, and other species.. [1:11:30] Back to the distinction between Stephen Fry and Richard Dawkins from Jordans perspective. Jordan expresses the creative artistic domain is more unique when regarding atheists. Stephen points to the importance of things that convey truth that are not strictly rational. The two discuss the functionality and rational absurdity of a constitutional monarchy form of government. [1:19:00] Talking about the "gods within" and how different religions and thinkers have tried to solve the puzzle of what some call conscience? [1:32:00] Stephen tells one last tale emphasizing his point that story/drama/narative are some of the most powerful ways to bring people together and should not be trivialised when discussing serious topics in societies. [1:37:00] Wrapping up the show. Thanking the guest Stephen Fry for his participation.

“It’s a strange paradox, that the liberals are illiberal in their demand for liberality. They are exclusive in their demand for inclusivity. They are homogenous in their demand for heterogeneity. They are somehow un-diverse in their call for diversity — you can be diverse, but not diverse in your opinions and in your language and in your behaviour. And that’s a terrible pity." Stephen Fry. Thank you for being you.

One man wakes you with the power of his words, the other enthralls you with beauty of his speech. Both leave you smarter, and perhaps even a little bit happier. This is a treat.

Two extremely intelligent people. Respecting each others views and allowing each other to get points across.

Never really been a fan of Peterson, I think this turned up in my feed because of JRE and my lifelong fanship of Steven Fry. I have to say this conversation is a perfect example of how a basic level of respect for other people can lead to something great and illuminating. The fact these two did this is fantastic and it's an example to be followed.

Just an idea for the production crew for this podcast. It would be great to have a split screen so we could see the body language of the person being spoken to. I think it would really enhance the depth of understanding in the audience.

Man. This conversation makes me feel like I am witnessing human mental evolution in real-time. Two conflicting perspectives from mutually great intellects, discussing their opposing ideas in a healthy, respectful & civil manner, is the recipe for progress in exploring the unknown of what’s next to come in human civilization. Very exciting to listen to these.

I'm loving this: two intelligent men with different point of views arguing their different points without ever looking down at the other, or the other's beliefs. We need more conversations like this.

The world desperately needs more Stephen Fry's in it. Intellectual and well read enough to converse properly with experts in their fields, combined with the rare ability to not only pass the information on to the masses in way that doesn't make them feel small and stupid, but to also then think and wonder about it themselves after he is gone It's his genuine interest in things that makes them interesting to others. I think of him as a wonderful teacher in communication.

Two men came to talk to each other. Both poor souls because of facing depression, but also both rich souls for their contributions to the world. A wonderful talk

This conversation should continue as a monthly podcast.... I could listen to their mental jiu-jitsu without ceasing.

Both Fry and Peterson, different as they may be, have had a significant impact on me and my thinking. And I just love how they can talk, unpack each other’s ideas, challenge each other and enjoy it whilst doing so. I reckon it’s time for part 2 😋

Such an amazing discussion. No harsh words, no aspiration of "winning". Just great minds talking, exchanging ideas and knowledge. ♥️

A bit of Fry and Peterson is the new buddy bromance show that we need

The Peterson / Fry discussions should be a monthly series for at least twelve sessions.

JP is a rock. And Stephen Fry is the weather, the right kind. I saw JP being shaped up in this discourse. JP was so close to tears, and he has shown his vulnerabilities several times but this it the only time when he did that when the other person agrees with him. Hats of to JP and Stephen Fry. Everyone is a little wiser after watching this, JP, Fry, me, and you.

To be able to live in an age where you can watch two men with such talents converse on a screen almost freely! What an inspirational conversation! Thank you Jordan Peterson and Stephen Fry

Stephen Fry could narrate my murder, as it happened, and I'd still be enthralled.

This isn't so much a debate as a respectful conversation -- and it's one of the best things I've ever seen on the Internet. Many thanks to Jordan Peterson and Stephen Fry for making it available to us.

I just bought his Greek myth book the other day it’s a fantastic read. Stephen is one heck of a talented man,and yes he is a national treasure who deserves to be knighted.