How To FIX Naval Units

I'll be honest rockets and artillery can't move and shoot because they have to secure the vehicle before shooting, a battlecruiser is heavy enought to laugh at that, so in my opinion instead of 7 range I would leave it at 6 and allow it to move and shoot in the same turn like in Days of Ruin. But the rest of the changes he did I like them, but cruisers should be able to hit land too.

I find it interesting that naval units in Wargroove were so powerful that if a map had water you pretty much disregard all land units and just try to fight for control of the sea.

I think naval units should be able to pass through bridges but not stop on them, similar to how you can pass through your own units.

Historically, and also currently, destroyers are extremely effective at hunting submarines. I think that since you want the submarine to be priced at 10000, and the destroyer to be 8000, having the destroyer do base 80% damage to surfaced submarines and 100% base damage to submerged submarines, is fair.

I think going the days of ruin approach with the battleship is the better way to fix that one, because MAN a mobile indirect is some crazy stuff that can justify the cost if you use it well. I also kind of want to see the DOR carrier, though with a lower cost to build the seaplanes since its already putting in a huge investment for the boat. Of course I'm also biased because days of ruin was my first game in the series. Aside from that, I like these changes, especially the pitch for the destroyer. May be something worth trying to jam into a romhack.

It's a shame that the advance wars devs decide to make them so expensive A total sea battle would be interesting

This whole discussion, is the reason why I made my custom CO entry. I made some heavy calculations and came to the conclusion that the fairer price change to all naval units was close to -30%. This is: Battleships costing 19,600g; Submarines 14,000g; Cruisers 12,600g; Landers 8,400; This made it possible for them to be more viable against Air Units. I also agree with increasing the defense and offense of Cruisers to Air Units. Finally giving Cruisers the ability to temporarily attack on land, and Battleships to attack on Air, made both units quite more useful. Upon playtesting my CO against air specialists and S tier COs, I came to the conclusion that indeed, just a simple price reduction to them made them viable against the rest of the units of the game. Of course haters will always repeat the mantra that 'Naval Units suck and you should invariably hate them'

The battleship fix will actually make the battleship deployable. Yet I have to disagree on the submarine's fixed price because it is too low, on practice this will cause an all naval combat that will mostly end up on a stalemate due to the waters being uncrossable now.

I never thought about adding a Destroyer! That's a great idea! However, I also really loved the cruiser in Dual Strike. I actually thought their price wasn't too bad. If I would have to choose between the Destroyer and the cruiser, I think I would choose the cruiser with a few adjustments of course.

I like the destroyer idea. However, giving it 6 vision would be too much, as the submarine was already intended to be the scouting unit at sea, which also gives the submarine 1 more use other than just countering ships. Giving the destroyer 3, much like the standard tank, would be fine though.

Make all naval units into the USS Liberty.

One additional tweak: Supply Boats as a new unit, separate from Landers, but using them as a base for their stats. They can resupply naval units in the same vein as how APCs do for land units, but cannot transport them. Additionally, submarines have to be on the surface in order to restock from a Supply Boat.

Reducing Lander cost by that much initially seemed like overkill, but in the greater context of the other changes, I think it's a worthwhile consideration. I'm more in favor of reducing it to 8k, but playtesting would determine if that's worthwhile. I would add the ability to resupply. Battleships are the most expensive unit in AW2, and as we see with all expensive units, expense should mean high-risk domination. Neotanks hit like trucks but aren't as durable, Megatanks are hella durable but easy enough to cheese, etc. Battleships don't share this design philosophy, probably because when you're given them in the campaign, it's always in missions where you can take full advantage of them. More range is overkill, and would make Grit a logical choice for naval missions, and I also don't agree with lowering the cost. Instead, I would take the Megatank or Piperunner approach: Make them hard to kill and require a specific playstyle to counter them. I like the light-AA guns approach, and would go so far as to say that a full HP Bomber should only do 50%, meaning it can't two-turn kill it due to counter-fire. DoR's addition of firing after moving feels like a logical decision, and would increase their threat level. This wouldn't be too strong of a change, because... Subs being lowered in cost and increased in strength makes them effectively the Md. Tanks of the sea. You wouldn't deploy too many of them unless your opponent is going hard into naval warfare. One or two is sufficient to be a threat, but if your opponent drops a BShip, suddenly you're going to really need them, since... Destroyers! I love the idea of a naval Tank. Not terrifying, but threatening enough to merit a response. This unit alone makes a substantially reduced Lander cost worth it. BBoats are a phenomenal unit, my favorite from AWDS. They should cost the same as Landers, as they trade off the ability to transport any unit for the ability to repair units. Which is a frighteningly powerful ability, particularly in the context of horrifyingly durable BShips. And let's throw in Carriers while we're at it. They're way too expensive, but their ability to annihilate air units from a distance is terrifying. That alone basically makes them worth 30k, but they should also be able to make seaplanes. And fire after moving. Oh and I don't like Cruisers. At all. Never have. They're an utterly useless unit. They need to be as terrifying as AA and they need to take little damage from land units apart from Rockets. I like your suggestions.

They don’t need to add a new unit like the destroyer, they just need to rework the cruiser to give it some of those ideal features you were talking about like attacking ground troops by the shore

I'd add another ship to that line up, a small corvette with the ability to transport 1 infantry unit and capture ports by itself, but with only mines for combat, which can only attack submarines, and not as well as a destroyer. An alternative for landing units when the opponent has subs out, the ability to capture without having new sea buildings... it would be the mech of the sea

I'd honestly like battle ships to have a "Salvo" ability, that works similar to missile silos, specializing them into the ground support unit battleships were. It could be a low-damage ability with a reduced firing range that costs 2 ammo, instead of the standard 1 per shot, but you'd gain the ability to do a set amount of damage, and reduce enemy movement speeds by one, making their advance slower while under the 'suppression' effect of the salvo. However, there are problems with it: - using it with movement impairing COs, such as Olaf, would be dumb - It would get very expensive, very quickly as you'd need to retreat to resupply in AW1+2 - COs that resupply would also quickly become super powerful (keeping up the salvos) Just with these 3 reasons, I can see why it wouldn't work, but i'd still like to see the battleship take on a more ground supporting role, other than offering the occasional salvos of damage

I absolutely approve of the Destroyer Unit, I find Naval Combat interesting and a bit fun but the steep prices are always such a turn off. A way to attack ground units with a Naval Unit who are adjacent to the sea would make Naval Combat much more fun.

I was thinking about utilizing the "material" mechanic from days of ruin. My idea was to give naval units a self heal, that would consume their 1 material. The amount healed would depend on the ship type. For example subs could heal 2. cruiser 3 and battleships 4

I like your destroyer idea, but I think it would be a bit too overtuned, especially for a cheap early-game unit. If you lowered its movement to 5 and its vision to 4, it would be a lot more reasonnable.

I think Day of ruin did it quite well with battleships and carriers in term of usefulness and fire power, those things are very frightening...except for the price tags of course. So, if there is any changes, just take Day of Ruin and reduce the price tags for those 2. As for the cruisers, the changes you propose is quite nice, but I would add one more thing that they should also replenish gas, ammo and 2hp per turn for copter units.